Girl hate has existed since time immemorial. From the competitions you get into during your school days all the way to the insecurities you experience in the workplace as an adult, women have found themselves in this kind of situation one way or another. Aiming to put an end to this toxicity, Ligaya Thompson and Jennifer Hawley discuss the seven common reasons behind girl hate. They dive into how women should stop comparing themselves to other women, why you should have your own idea of success, how to deal with the stereotypical pressures of society, and the importance of trusting your intuition. The two also warn about the “snapshot” nature of social media, explaining why everything posted online must not be taken as the entire picture of reality.
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Stop The Girl Hate
In the last episode, we talked to you about goal setting. In this episode, we’re talking to you about stopping the girl hate. Girl hate is a thing. Jenny and I are going to cover what exactly is it. Why do we believe girl hate exists? How we can be a part of the solution to stop the girl hate? I’m going to hand it over to Jenny to let her kick it off. Jenny, what’s your definition of girl hate? What do you think it is?
Thanks, Ligaya. When it comes to girl hate, it will come down to why girls are consistently feeling threatened by the other women around them. It’s girls hating on other girls. It’s something that we experience every day. It’s something that even you and I and anybody subconsciously does. It’s almost like internal misogyny, a subconscious presence of hateful, sexist, misogynistic language onto oneself or onto another girl. Instead of it coming from a man to a woman, it’s going from woman to woman. It’s created by stereotypes, learned both consciously and subconsciously. It will come from the rules and myths about the way that women should be. It’s a big question about, why we are all being Regina George to each other? Everybody is a Regina George to somebody else.
You did touch on it. It’s what it says it is. It’s girl hate. You brought up Regina George. I remember that movie, Mean Girls when it came out. Every female has related to that movie, whether you were the girl hater or you were the girl getting hated on. I expressed to you growing up that I was on both ends of the spectrum. We’ve probably all have been on both ends of the spectrum. Being in high school, you’re young and popular. It’s a competition. I was a homecoming court at one point in high school. It was always a competition on who’s prettier, who has more friends, who hangs out with the different social groups that they have there. There are those girls that weren’t as popular. They could have been getting picked on because maybe she didn’t have the trendiest clothes, she was a little on the nerdy side or that one’s a little goth.
Should it exist? No, I don’t think it should. I overtime have grown to appreciate people’s stories, their backgrounds and who they are as their own individual person. When you’re younger, you don’t think like that. You’re immature, making dumb decisions. You then get older, either you’re okay with who are or you’re not. If you’re not, that’s when girl hate continues to exist in your life. In summary, girl hate is an insecurity too. At a young age, we’re all insecure but once you start getting into your late 20s, 30s and so on, you should already have a definition of who you are. You should either be working on being comfortable with who you are. If you’re not, you’re miserable in life, you’re not happy and things aren’t going the way they’re planned, then that can attribute to having girl hate towards other girls, especially when you see them being successful. Have you ever been in a scenario at work where you worked for this miserable female boss or even had a miserable female coworker on your team that made your job a little bit more complicated?
There have been many instances of that. What it all stems back to is, why in this day and age are we okay as women in a professional environment with jealousy being first for other women who are successful? It’s almost like jealousy and competitiveness towards other women comes first, and then congratulations come second. What do we do to flip that on its head where we can be proud for them being the strong and successful women that they are?
Jealousy is also indirect relationships with insecurities. In my opinion, I feel like certain women who do still carry around a lot of jealousy towards others is because they have a lot of insecurities that they haven’t worked through. We’re all insecure about something. Nobody’s perfect. I have my own insecurities. When I have feelings that aren’t the most positive feelings, I have to ask myself, “Where are you coming from? Where is your head at? Why do you feel this way?” I have to trace it down and be like, “Am I being insecure about this? Have I lost confidence in myself on the subject?” It all depends. If someone doesn’t know how to have those honest conversations with themselves, it leads to a lack of confidence in themselves, which leads to jealousy.
When you see somebody in the office or one of your group of friends that thrives and getting job promotions, getting married or living her best life, whatever it may be, it makes you feel some kind of way. Maybe you should take a step back, check yourself and see where you’re at. When I see people thrive, I feel good about it. When I see my friends getting the job they want, getting married or bought their first house, they got their first luxury bag, I’m like, “You go, girl. You do you.” It’s cool. It’s an inspiration for me. She did hers. I’m going to go out there and I’m going to do mine.
I do want to take a step back. You brought up a point where you talked about pop culture and the notion that girls have to be perfect or the best at everything. We get a lot of influence from billboards and magazines. Social media is so huge. Let’s think about the Disney movies that we’re watching. All of these princesses, none of them had female friends. It never showed a positive female-female interaction. It was always one female competing with another female. Think about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. There was Snow White and there was the witch. They were competing with each other. Think about The Little Mermaid.
The Little Mermaid was my favorite. I still know every word to every song on the soundtrack. It wasn’t necessarily the princess competing. It was the princess minding her own business, living life, getting into adventures. You have this witch. Ariel had Ursula lurking in because Ariel was cute. That guy, Eric, thought she was a babe. She wanted some of that. She wanted Ariel’s voice because she thought Ariel had a great voice. Ariel went out to get her. Not to make this about The Little Mermaid or anything, but there was always that witch that was out to destroy some princess’s happiness or keep some hold on her to where she couldn’t be happy and live her best life. We all have run into that person. Maybe still to this day sometimes we happened to meet people that still have those traits.
I worked with a woman who was the worst woman I have ever worked with. She was my peer and then moved into my manager. When she moved into being my manager, I hated my job because of her. I couldn’t get anything right. She was never like, “Good job.” It was always like, “You could do better. I don’t like your attitude.” She would tell other people I had an attitude. It wasn’t me. It was her. I know it wasn’t me because when I would break out of her shadow and start communicating with other leaders and other people in the company, they’d be like, “I’ve heard bad things about you from such and such but I don’t see that in you.” I’m like, “I know. Such and such hated me. I don’t know why. She hated a lot of people.” I think there are still a lot of women out there that haven’t figured that part out about themselves. They’re still on a witch hunt to destroy people and their happiness.
It comes up so much in our professional environment, but also in our personal interactions. Let’s think about when we were down in Miami for our show kickoff trip. Think about how many times you looked at women who are walking around and subconsciously thought to yourself, “Oh, my God.”
I was looking at her and was like, “She’s a babe. Look at that. I think she’s only wearing a string.” There are women who were looking at her and were like, “Ugh.” It was a bit too much. For the most part, there was a mixture of girls out there. There were some cute girls. I remember when we were hanging out one night in South Beach and we saw the young girls with their little skin-tight dresses that were all bright and colorful with their colorful heels. We’re like, “Remember when we were that young? We used to dress like that.” I’m sure they have girls in their age group that are like, “Look at these skanks.” They were cute. They were doing their thing and living it up. It made someone else uncomfortable.
It subconsciously comes up. It’s going to require our ability to look past what other people expect from us and focus on what we expect from other people.
Jealousy and competitiveness towards other women always come first. Congratulations come second.
Trust your intuition. There are times where I make friends and I’m like, “Something is off.” I’ve shared that with you. You usually know when you have a friend who is not a true advocate for you. They’re an advocate for you when things are going better in their life, but when things are going great in your life, are they still like, “The guy’s got it going on. Jenny’s doing her thing.” Think about friends you have where you might have said, “I launched my own podcast.” They’re like, “You’re podcasting? I didn’t see your Instagram. I’m barely on social media these days.” Those are also the same people that post selfie after selfie. They leave breadcrumbs to their entire life on social media. It’s like, “Check me out when you get a chance.”
Your intuition sometimes will tell you, “I don’t feel like that person’s happy for me.” I have to ask myself, “Am I overthinking it? Is this who this person really is?” Sometimes you run across those people in life. They all seem to have the same traits as the people that I’ve met. It’s a downer. It’s like, “I like this one. She’s cool but I feel like she still needs to work on being happy within herself. I don’t see where she’s happy for her friends or for anyone outside of her.” Ladies, if you have a friend like that in your life or a coworker, trust your intuition. If you can’t figure it out, then simmer on it. Time will tell. People’s true colors will come out over time. Not all your friends are going to be your advocates. It is what it is.
There’s something related to that that I want to bring up before. I get into an article I found about 7 Reasons Why Girls Hate on Each Other. How many times have you had a friend tell you or have a conversation with one of your girlfriends and they’re like, “I hate girls? “
I hate when they say that.
Why do you hate girls?
I’ve heard it since high school. It’s like, “Why?” It’s because we have enough pressure on ourselves as women. We have pressure from society. We have pressure from trying to move up the ladder and what used to be dominated by men everywhere. We have people telling us how skinny to be, how tall to be, what color makeup we need to wear when it’s in or out of season. We have enough pressure. If you’re a mom, you got all the pressures. We need to stop putting that type of pressure on each other and embrace each other’s uniqueness. If you hate girls, if you sincerely feel that way, then maybe you should analyze the girls that you talk to. I can guarantee you, it’s not girls. It’s the girls that you’re talking to. I got a lot of cool girlfriends from all different walks of life. When I hear someone say, “I can’t stand girls,” I’m like, “Why? Maybe you should check your circle and figure that out.”
That’s something that we’re going to bring up in one of our later episodes about your circle of influence. I found this interesting article at Gaia. It’s by these two women with a blog called A Way Abroad. They came up with an article about 7 Reasons Why Girls Hate on Each Other. I wanted to list them out and then talk about each and every one of them. One, we see each other as direct competition.
If you didn’t play sports in high school or if you weren’t involved in any competitive activities, you don’t know how to deal with competition. I agree.
It’s a competition if you want her job. You want to be able to have the free time to travel or have the money to travel. You like her personality and think she’s funny or witty. If you want a job like hers, “How did you get there? Tell me. I want to be like you.” If you want to know how they travel so much or how they’re able to afford to travel, tell her to give you some recommendations. If you think she’s funny, why is she not your friend? We have enough of those together. We see positive qualities in women and turn them into negative ones in our head.
Don’t make it be like, “I want to be like her.” Maybe you should be like, “She’s inspirational. I want to move like that. If I want to pick up and travel for the weekend, I want to be able to pick up and do it. I want to have the job that I like waking up for. I want to be able to get into that kind of outfit, carry myself and have a good time.” I wouldn’t make it necessarily about, “I want to be like her.” That sounds a little psycho. Remember that movie Desperately Seeking Susan? Have you ever seen that one with Madonna? I’m a big Madonna fan. You should never want to be like someone else. You should be inspired by who other people are, but you should always want to be you. Be authentic to yourself. What else have you got on that list?
Two is we are envious of what others have. It comes back to social media, how it can be toxic and also be motivating. It can be one of those two things but oftentimes, there’s so much toxic stuff out there. Three is we don’t make ourselves approachable to other females. I’ll share a funny story about this one. Not necessarily related to females, but everybody knows I go ham at the gym. People have told me so many different times I look so unapproachable at the gym. I am in the zone. I’ve made some friends at some of my gyms but people are like, “Your face, girl. You look completely unapproachable.” It’s not on purpose and I’m not out there judging anybody, but I’m just in the zone. That’s my funny story about that.
You bring up girls at the gym. I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as a hobby. There are girls on the mats. They’re intimidating-looking. Intimidation is a normal feeling. Maybe a new person is coming into the gym and they got their belt on, whatever color rank they are. Sometimes they don’t look approachable but then when you get to know them, it’d be a good spar session between you two. When you get to know them, you’re like, “You’re really cool.” There’s a girl like that that I know at the gym. She has a real chill personality. I didn’t start talking to her until months ago. When I first met her, she was standoffish, short but not necessarily because I thought she was mean. I can tell she’s reserved. When I got to know her, I’m like, “She’s someone that doesn’t mess around.” She’s not going to let you cross her in any kind of way. She’s going to tell you exactly what’s on her mind. I personally like people like that. I’d rather know where I stand with you. When I got to know her, we started hanging out. I was like, “She’s cool.” I can see where not being approachable is an intimidating thing to some, but don’t judge a book by its cover is the message here.
Pop culture always has this notion that girls have to be perfect at everything.
Four is we’re all self-conscious. This comes to the core of why girls hate other girls because we’re all self-conscious about something. You cannot tell me you are not self-conscious because there is something about you that you do not like. No matter who you are, what you look like, you are self-conscious about something. We all have them and that’s okay, but work through them.
I got some mom friends that have some banging bodies. They don’t even look like they had kids. I work out a lot. I have an average body. I got some mom friends. I’m like, “Did you even have kids?” There’s not one stretch mark. They still got a Coke bottle figure. That does make me feel a little self-conscious. I have stretch marks and I rock it. You saw me in my bikini. It’s being okay with yourself and where you’re at in your journey in life. I have the body I have because I gave birth to some beautiful children. I’m proud of my body, but was I always? No. I was very self-conscious about it, especially in my twenties being a young mom and I had all my friends in their twenties with no kids. Be aware of that and work on it.
It’s about learning to love looking at yourself, whether it’s in a mirror, whether it’s on the inside too. You want to work on finding those things about your body and your personality that you love. Everyone on this Earth is unique. I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody out there who looks exactly like me and acts exactly like me as well. If you think about it that would be weird and so unbearably boring.
You would get competitive. Jenny’s a redhead. When we hired another redhead on the team, she was like, “There is only room for one redhead in this office.” You would get super competitive.
Keep in mind that that was a boy. His name was Kyle. We’re not talking about me competing with another female.
Kyle, we love you but you were not as funny as Jenny.
I want to bring up a very inspirational quote from one of my favorite ladies out there. She’s so motivational and inspirational. Ligaya, you may know her because she hails from H-Town, our girl, Megan Thee Stallion. Bear with me. We all know she’s a female rapper. She has a song out there called Body. She called all her followers her hotties. I think that’s awesome. In this song, one of my favorite quotes is, “Body-ody-ody-ody-ody-ody-ody-ody-ody.” It goes on with some other odys. “Body crazy, curvy, wavy, big titties, lil’ waist.”
She talks about it over and over in this song like, “You look good. You’re saucy like a barbecue.” There’s so much body positivity in this song that if you take the time to listen to it, Megan Thee Stallion, I am totally a hottie. We’re one of your hotties, Meg. We would love to have you on the show. She’s so motivational and inspirational about body positivity. Not everybody’s body, that’s what they’re going to see. They’re not always going to be perfect. You’re not going to view your body as perfect. It’s about finding all the positives and what you can. That was my attempt at rapping. I will for now keep my day job.
We’ll wait for karaoke night. We’ll do karaoke night again. At one time, we did karaoke night, you did Baby Got Back. Next time karaoke night, I’m going to tell you to do that song.
I can’t wait. Let’s go back to the seven reasons.
We were left off on number four. What’s number five?
Five is we want to be the cool girl.
Always appreciate being okay with yourself and where you currently are in your journey.
Those are center of attention kind of girls.
Those are the girls that hate other girls.
I’ve noticed a lot of girls that want to be cool. They have to know it all. They want to be a part of every conversation or relate to you in every way. Be yourself. Being cool is subjective. What I think is cool isn’t what someone else necessarily thinks is cool. Be yourself. I’m cool with all kinds of different people. I got friends on my list that nerd out on stuff, super-intelligent, articulate, doctors and stuff all the time. I have friends who are chill. I got friends who party it up, friends living that single life. They’re all cool in their own way. Just be you. To me, that’s cool when you can be yourself. One thing I always liked about you, Jenny, is you’ve always been yourself consistently. I’ve never seen a variation of you. I’ve just seen Jenny. Who you’re getting on this show is who I got from day one. I might get, “She’s herself.” That’s cool, not trying to be cool.
We talked a lot about authenticity, keeping it 100 and keeping it real. You talk about all the different friends that you have out there, what they do and how they keep themselves happy. You don’t have to be friends with everyone. Just because someone isn’t like you or doesn’t conform to this little box that you have of what’s appropriate, that doesn’t mean you have to be mean to the women that you don’t understand.
No girl hating just because you don’t understand who this person is.
Number six is social media can be a nightmare. We touched a lot on this.
Social media is not the truth. How about that?
How about this? Social media is a powerful tool. It can be positive and it can be negative. It can be entertaining. It can be a way to connect with people that you wouldn’t have otherwise but it can also be incredibly toxic. Anyone who had tried to have an online presence, you’ve been made to feel crap by trolls.
I don’t even think it’s trolls. Maybe sometimes you’re not getting enough likes and that bothers you. That’s lame to me. I agree, social media has its place. There’s a need for social media. When I was younger, I was always on it. I’ve been posting what I refer to you as breadcrumbs to my life. Everything I do, I’m leaving crumbs behind so you can follow me and see it. I’m a little more private these days. I post things. I share certain things but I don’t want to share everything with you. I rarely post pictures of my kids. I don’t need anybody’s validation. If I post a picture and I’m not getting likes, I don’t care. I posted that picture because I wanted to. Whether you like it or not, I don’t care. People post things for that validation of, “Did I look as pretty in this outfit? Do they accept my meal as appropriate eating?”
I don’t know what goes on in people’s heads when they’re posting stuff. People portray a different life on social media. I know people that are on social media are Bible thumpers. Everything they post is something super positive and upbeat or religious. I know them in real life and I’m like, “That’s not who you are. You’re portraying to be this person because of social media.” Also another thing too, social media has definitely driven up the percentages of depression, suicides and anxiety. That’s telling right there. If you’re on social media and you’re seeing people posting things, thinking they’re living their best life, they might not be. They might be portraying it. If that’s affecting you, they’re being fake. Social media can be used for good, but it’s used for a lot more not so good.
Keeping in mind that social media is not a direct representation of reality. People pick and choose what they say and what they want to share. It is a simple snapshot of someone’s life. I’m going to call that the Insta versus reality phenomenon. You never know what’s going on behind that.
What’s going on in their real life. Some people even pay for the life they portray. You see those people on social media like, “You can drive this car too. You can have these babes too.” They’re taking pictures in front of nice houses and standing next to Lamborghinis. They got babe after babe lined up after them and they’re like, “Let me coach you into living this lifestyle. I’m going to teach you how to invest or teach you how to make that money.” A true investor or somebody who truly is about their money, they’re not going to be flaunting it like that. A lot of times they’re paying for that. They’re renting those Lambos. They’re paying those bikini models who never touched the guy. They don’t know him. They shut up to get a paycheck. Don’t fall into those social media traps. It’s the lowest hanging fruit and the worst trap you could fall into. It’s available at the tip of your fingers all day 24/7. You should not put your focus on that. Focus on doing you.
Everyone on this earth is unique, so look at yourself in the mirror and see what you love about your body and personality.
The last one and it’s something that is the best one that we can close out on. We’re taught there isn’t room for all of us at the top.
You were taught that when another redhead showed up on the team. It is a fight to the top. Everybody can relate to that, male or female. After leaving Corporate America, I don’t even try to keep up with that type of stuff, who’s doing better than me, other realtors are selling house after house or investors that have more in their portfolio. I personally do not try to measure myself to them. I know where I’m at in life. I understand my journey is different from theirs. I have spiritual belief and I also believe the universe gives you what you deserve at that time.
When the timing is right, I’m going to have those jobs. I’m going to have so many properties in my portfolio. I’m going to be listing houses after Wazoo. I might even move into luxury real estate. Have a definition of your own standard for success. That way, when you feel like you’ve made it to the top, that should be, “I’ve made it to where I want to be. It’s time to reinvent myself. Let’s do this again.” Instead of trying to compete and be like, “She opened a franchise. I’m going to go open a franchise.” I knew a friend that did something crazy like that.
Let’s motivate each other. Let’s share with others as women. Be proud to help grow and make other strong, capable women and help them accomplish their goals. It’s something that I wanted to bring up from this aspect. It’s a positive thing from pop culture. Look at the actresses like Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. They were always known as the funny girls. They decided they didn’t have to be one of them overpowering the next. Think about all the projects that they’ve worked on together. Have you ever seen that movie Baby Mama?
You and Brian have to sit down and watch that movie. It is one of the funniest movies I have ever seen them do together. I feel like if one of them wasn’t in it, it would not have been as good. They’re the ultimate BFFs. They continue to support each other through their different roles and their opportunities. You look at them. They didn’t go out to try and outdo one another. They build off each other and have this incredible, hilarious relationship. That is someone you want to strive to be like. You want to have supportive women in your life that are supporting you and can work with you, not against you.
Find some like-minded friends. I listened to a podcast with Tina Fey. She was on the sitcom 30 Rock. She talked about being on that and writing. She talked about when she wrote Mean Girls. She wrote a book too that addresses some of the things that we’re talking about. This is a topic for another conversation. She did talk about there was a time where she did have a lot of anxiety trying to work and keep up with life. She talked about her friend, Amy. She’s like, “We work great together. I love working with her.” I forgot what show it was. It might have been one with her and Oprah. I listen to Oprah Winfrey’s podcast and she was on it. It’s cool to hear her story because she’s funny. Even when she was on the podcast being serious, she was being funny. At the same time, she was getting her message across. She was being funny about it but she was real with her story and where she was at those particular times in her life. Maybe I’ll look it up and quote it again or something.
You mentioned Mean Girls as something that Tina Fey worked on writing and producing. She also played the teacher in that movie. Who else was in that movie? Amy Poehler. She was Regina’s mom. She’s crazy. I loved her.
I’m trying to remember the name of the book. There’s one called Bossypants. This might be the one that she wrote. I’ll have to touch on that one. I haven’t read it but I wanted to. She talked about her writing her book. I was like, “I have to pick that up and read it.”
Let’s be upfront, open and supportive. We don’t want to have any more like every woman has a secret to success. We want to share those secrets with other women. We don’t want to keep those from other people. “When women support women, incredible things can happen.” I don’t know who said that. It’s a popular quote. Let’s do something kind for each other and for other females and continue day after day. I do believe that there had been positive changes in the way of girl-on-girl hate. We see it a lot from a negative standpoint but there have been a lot of changes out there in a positive route. There’s a lot of body positivity out there and female supporting females. There have been a lot of movements regarding it. I can’t say it’s all bad. There are some great stuff out there. We got to get more people on this boat. Not going through a canal where you get stuck like that one boat in the Suez Canal. Let’s get more people on this boat. Let’s get more people on this train. Continue to be positive and be supportive of each other. We can leave it at the one thing. Don’t go out there and be Regina George. Be your self.
We talked about girl hate and what it is. We talked about why it exists. It could come from insecurity, what society tells you, jealousy or whatever it comes from. We covered some of those things. How you can be a part of the solution and stop the hate, we bounced around on that one too. Maybe we should start embracing each other. Don’t assume someone doesn’t want to talk to you or don’t assume someone isn’t going to be approachable because they don’t look approachable. Make that opinion yourself when you try to approach them and they don’t want to talk to you. Those are some of the things that we covered. I don’t have anything else to add to it. Do you, Jenny?
We can wrap it up right here.
We’re going to be signing off right here. As we always say, it doesn’t matter what type of girl boss you want to be in life, just always keep it 100.